Super Size Me/farhenhiet 9.11...

[agent_PUNT]

Super size me is definitely worth seeing...and I assume 9.11 will be the same... it's ironic though, that the people who don't see these movies are the people who need to see them the most. (ie fat Republicans and fat non-voters).

thoughts.... anyone stolen a copy of 9.11 off of the web yet?

[gerald hennessy]

i've seen no copies of 911 yet on the web

[Ga Ga Gooey]

I'm sorry. Moore is a pompous ass. He may be humorous at times, but he is not at all persuasive in, say, Bowling for Columbine.

[3v3+Z]

Is "BfC" really supposed to be persuasive? It make you (or me at least) think, but it doesn't really seem to offer much in the way of definitive solutions to the problems it addressed. It'd be different if M&M were completely anti-gun, but he is a gun owner and NRA member, if I remember correctly. Seems to me there were more questions than answers there.

I've been hearing a little bit lately about people attacking him personally; his weight, his wardrobe, just stuff that has nothing to do with debating the factual content of his films and books. Seems kind of desperate to me. Not unlike when they couldn't get anything on Clinton that had anything to do with his actual job, so they had to focus on his getting a BeeJer in the "oral" office. Not that Clinton was really that GREAT... and not that I really have a clue what I'm talking about anyway, so... neverfuckingmind. :p

[tjamick]

various consevative peoples dont have any good rebuttles, so they make fun of him.

[Ga Ga Gooey]

Actually, Moore is just so bad he isn't even worth rebutting. And since he doesn't really make coherent arguments, but rather "raises questions" (I had a few, like why do we let this shithead be a major voice of the left? and what is it about MM that makes him so lovable gang rapable?

He meanders wildly about intellectually, never quite making his point, content to, for example, intellectually abuse senile old men, distort the truth whenever it serves his agenda, and draws connections between radically dissimilar events (columbine occurred on the same day as a missile bombardment of Iraq!).

What exactly about bowling for columbine did you think warranted a rebuttal?

[tjamick]

he wasnt making a connection between columbine and the bombing, he was saying that becouse of the shootings, the bombing wasnt really mentioned in the media.

[Ga Ga Gooey]

I thought he was attempting to construct the outline of a more generalized critique of violence. The only thing I really took away from the movie was that media coverage of violence crowds out real news (obvious) and that *it hasn't always been that way*. Perhaps there is hope. Although I don't really think BfC did anything to cure America's obsession with violence.

That is not really central to my dislike of Moore. Look at this web page by a man that appears, from his ramblings at the end of the article, to be a complete idiot.

Even idiots can tear apart Moore's deceptive work:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

The real problem with Moore is that by putting him out as a spokesperson for the left, we run the risk of being tainted by his dishonesty and proclivity for manipulation. These are exactly the kinds of things that should be kept far out of play, since the left will *crush* the right on most issues in an honest debate.

[mad tv fan]

look, its not just that Moore was trying to change how people looked at guns, it was also to open peoples eyes a bit more. It did for me. I mean maybe some who are so close minded wont get it but i know the next time i hear about a kid finding his dads gun and bringing it to school, bfc will come into my mind.

[agent_PUNT]

he doesn't really care if you change your mind.. he just wants you to start using it. Getting people to talk and be aware is the first step..... and he has always, always expressed a deep desire that people get active.... he doesn't want everyone to just blindly believe him.

the connection about the bombing on the same day as the shooting was demonstrating how Americans can see this violence in schools and be soooo upset.. but they don't seem to get upset at the fact that everyday their country is killing people around the world...

And no, I'm not trying to make a big anit-USA speech, the point is that people innocent people die everyday and no one cares....

like David says on the new CD about the boy falling in the well....

[mad tv fan]

exactly

[I'M WASTED]

what you need to remember is that m.moore is a filmaker. he makes films about how fucked our nation really is. he doesn't make films about how great we are. personaly i think the united states is fucked and we deserve what ever is coming to us. this is god's america, in god we trust, just like it says in the 10 commandments(don't get me started on these christian coalition fucks), thall shall not kill, well unless you kill millions of people for profit, then its okay. m.moore however, in b.f.c might be considered byist, but he does make attemtps to cover both sides. george bush is the biggest idiot ever. in m.moore's book stupid men, there is much to be said about george bush, but he also exposes many fucked up facts about gore and clinton. the point is that mostly all politicians, government, and corprate america are corrupt. but most importantly, anybody but bush! he is a liar, criminal, and idiot. m.moore is in my opinion is the most important filmaker there is right now. fuck bush.

also supersize me was great. it is funny and informative. although i am dissapointed in the fact that he did not show how mcdonalds treats their animals.
there is plenty of material there. there chickens are raised in cages not much bigger than themselves, stacked on another, shitting on another, and are injected with drugs to make them fatter, just to be slaughtered. i eat chicken, but its hard to eat it sometimes. mcdonalds sucks regardless. but the movie i thought was very good.

[CptPlanet]

http://bowlingfortruth.com/

I'm neither endorsing nor rebutting any of the content presented on this site. Simply presenting it to fuel your little wheelspinning circlejerk.

Anyway, yeah, Michael Moore is the Rush Limbaugh of the left. Now all we need is a Bill O'Reilly and we'll finally be ready to turn politics into the unfettered mudslinging festival of idiocy it's been trying to be for the last few decades and completely abandon any pretense of it being about the debate of ideas and public policy.

[agent_PUNT]

Michael Moore calls Clinton a republican.

Suepr Size Me could have focussed on the vegetarian aspects... but the director's agenda was to discuss the health issues for humans. He didn't get side-tracked... which is good because it would have been too much info

[kulguyssj4]

John Stossel actually did a report where people ate mcdonald's for a month and exercised for no more than an hour a day and they lost weight. But the guy in the documentary doesn't exercise and he eats 5000 calories a day. If you eat 5000 calories anywhere your ass is gonna be huge. There is nothing special about McDonald's practices, no magic calories. Fat Asses will be fat asses. Besides according to the government Tom Cruise is considered obese.

I saw Fahrenheit and I thought it was great. Possibly one of the best... of course I'll have to wait to see if a conservative (I am one) comes out and actually comes out with a rebuttal or full transcripts. No one ever does that...

[kulguyssj4]

I second that cpt. planet

[AndersLevant]

The other day I happened across Bill O'Reilly's show, and he was re-airing an interview -- actually argument is a better term for it -- between Michael Moore and himself. I realized that they are the two most pompous and self-important people of whom I am currently aware. They both ought to be stopped. Or participate in a fight to the death, because I think that would pretty much rock.

[CptPlanet]

Arena match. Mideival weaponry. No holds barred.

Or maybe a last man standing match in a stadium full of tigers.

Or who fucking cares. Shoot them both in the stomach with a bullet full AIDS. Whatever shuts them the fuck up.

[agent_PUNT]

saw 9/11 last night... go see it. It's fucking amazing. George W. IS THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER!

[I'M WASTED]

tried to see it today it was sold out. richmond sucks. i'm seeing it sunday. fuck bush.

[I'M WASTED]

saw it. i thought it was great. its not hard to make bush look stupid, just let him talk and he'll do the rest.

[agent_PUNT]

You don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Canada is electing a new President today (we use the term "Jack of All Trades" instead of President however)... and one guy is running on the same platform as George W....and he has a chance to win....a good chance of winning.

Fucking scary shit, we might be joining the US in the New Vietnam after all.

[Stabby]

I saw it over the weekend. The only theater in Sarasota that was showing it was a little art-house theater in the "hip" district of town, but the place was absolutely packed. We had to buy tickets a day in advance and still waited in line for over 30 minutes to get in the next day. People outside selling shirts, regestering people to vote, and a few protestors holding up signs with pictures of michael moore holding hands with hitler (like the film poster which has him holding hands with Bush) and signs that featured such smart neocon lines as "freedom of speech does not include hate speech" (I kid you not, it was very close to that. I wanted to explain that yes, in fact it does. But figured I may-as-well be explaining quantum theory to a cow.)

The movie started out really good. It had a quick pace, and shot you up with information and powerful images one after another. The purging of blacks and democrats from Florida ballots, the outrage by the Congessional Black Cauccus, Bush's limo being pelted with eggs as it took him to his innauguration and the laughable first nine months of W's presidency where shown bopping around on the golf course, forever on vacation.

The portrayl of 9/11 was very well done; instead of the visuals of the eternally crashing 7 series jetliners, or the slow-motion collapses of towers 1 and 2. We are given only the sound of the low flying airliner and the screaming people and footage of papers and debris floating through the air. And then the comical scene of Bush, sitting in a Florida classroom after being told "The country is under attack" looking confused, not knowing what to do. A very pecuilar reaction since I think if anyone came up to you and whispered in your ear "You neighborhood has been destroyed" you might actually even stand-up. Not our President. Moore's narration during this part is hilarious.

But at some point the movie hit a slump and seemed to drag. We spend a lot of time in Flint, Michigan. While I loved the scene with the Marine recruiters driving through the poor sections of town, ambushing people to get them to enlist, I was already starting to check the time.

I'm kind of "eh" about the whole thing. I think the film is less controversial than it's being claimed to be. There are no glaring factual errors and no conspiracy theory, just facts followed by very one-sided opinions and then the scenes to get to the sensitive people: children lying mutilated in Iraq and a mother who lost her son in the war, breaking down and crying in front of the White House after a run in with a douche bag who told her to blame Al Quaida for her son's death.

The portrayl of the U.S. troops and how they went from naive, gung-ho killers to distraught, confused men wondering what it was all for, was one of the highlights. As was the idea of the "fear campaign" that is concieved by the government and perpetrated through the media.

The movie is not an intelligent, open-minded look at our current state of government and foreign relations -- it's an angry polemic. Its central thesis (which I agree with) is that Bush and his administration are dangerous and incompetent and should be removed from power immediately. The problem is there are points where Moore will take any side opposite Bush even if those sides conflict; he complains about the lack of troops in Afghanistan one minute and then calls the whole Afghanistan war a fraud the next.

At other points, the movie segues into a series of vignettes with only a tenuously demonstrated relationship to the central issue of Bush's illegal warmongering. This is not to say that the issues of pared down homeland defense or the ominous applications of the Patriot Act aren't worthy topics; however, their inclusion is somewhat haphazard and incomplete.

It's not the greatest thing I've ever seen, but people should still see it, because it's great strength comes from the fact that it's getting ordinary people to talk about important things. After the movie we went out to dinner and sat their discussing the film, and an older couple sitting at a table near ours overheard us and actually pulled up their chairs and joined in for a few minutes until our food came. Not gonna get that with White Chicks.


...sorry for the long post I promise my next post will be one line in all caps with no apparent relation to the thread at hand. :(

[RizzleMcIzzle]

White chicks.... haha. Well, I for one appreciate the long post. I read the whole thing and you've convinced me to see it. Seems like a lot of films are stirring up controversy lately. First The Passion, now this.

[CptPlanet]

Soul Plane is gonna wind up being the most controversial film of the year. Just you wait.

[RizzleMcIzzle]

Well now that you mention it, Tom Arnold is in that film, when he clearly should not be in any movie, regardless of how bad it may be.

In conclusion, I write run on sentences.

Oh and CptPlanet be sure to respond ASAP with any witty remark. I wouldn't want you to lose your last post status because of me. :)

[CptPlanet]

Aw shucks, I've given up all that rot. I realize now that quality, not quantity, is what truly defines the size of my dick on the internet.

[CptPlanet]

Oh yeah, and I saw Farenheit 9/11 of the 4th of July and I was underwhelmed. Not mad because of Michael Moore's distortions and half-truths, not filled with any sort of righteous anger, just 2 hours closer to death. It was still interesting and some parts of it were pretty moving, but overall it just didn't evoke much from me.

[RizzleMcIzzle]

OK, quality it shall be!

I've been hearing a lot of mixed reviews (and reading some here), and after reading up on Michael Moore, I have now realized that he is a bad bad man. Still, I have yet to see the film and I have no idea when or if I ever will. I can't seem to decide...

[CptPlanet]

If you're going into the theater to be informed, it won't be worth your money. However, if you're going in there and viewing it as a work of quasi-fiction, designed to entertain, well then... you'll still be disappointed.

If you're a hardline liberal looking for even more reasons to hate Bush, regardless of their factuality, then sure, get on in there and start feeling righteous. It'll definitely be worth your nine bucks. Also, if you're an ignorant piece of shit with a hardon for walking out of movie theaters and saying shit like "I had no idea..." then you'll find yourself very much at home.

[RizzleMcIzzle]

I've decided: Screw this, I'm going to see Sleepover! Moviefone.com describes it as, "Four teenage girls have a slumber party, which turns out to be quite an adventure".
Sounds like an adventure!

Thanks for the help.

[CptPlanet]

Bring plenty of lotion. You know, in case your "elbows dry out" in the middle of the movie. ;)

[RizzleMcIzzle]

Ok, I bought a whole case. The only problem is that I need to sneak it into the theater without those pizza faced ushers seeing it. You know the rules: No outside lotions. It's an outrage because they charge $3.95 per bottle in there! Can't I jack off without them jacking up the prices?!

[3v3+Z]

At least the napkins are free. Except, ya ever try and clean up after yourself with a NAPKIN? It's not pretty. I ran out of Puffs about a month ago, so I used a napkin. I'm STILL finding little pieces of it stuck to my ding-dong. That's why I have a black light in my bathroom.

So I had this idea a while back -- DON'T FUCKING STEAL IT!!! I wanna make a movie in the style of those improvised mock-documentaries. It's gonna be called -- get this:





























































DOCUMENTARY:
A Documentary

Okay, I've already revealed too much, but fuck you if that ain't a KILLER idea!! (Ever notice you rarely see two exclamation points. It tends to jump from one to three and then it can move up from there, but it's almost never two.)

[agent_PUNT]

that sounds alot like my idea for a Mock Documentary called... you guessed it Documentary. (Because callig it Mocumentary would just be stupid)

Getting back to Far. 9/11

the dude who wrote that long post... Stabby....

you wrote "facts followed by very one-sided opinions and then the scenes to get to the sensitive people: children lying mutilated in Iraq and a mother who lost her son in the war..."

"Scenes to get to the sensitive people" ???

How can you not feel bad for little kids who are getting bombs dropped on their families and friends?

Go back to your electric scissors and the Simple Life...

[Stabby]

I didn't say I didn't feel bad for them mister, but that's what the scenes are there for, it's sappy and sentimental and meant to manipulate the viewer. Of course if you also read my post you'd see that I said I AGREE with the points Moore makes in the movie, and have no problem with the way he presents these scenes at all. But for me, personally, I've already SEEN enough of the blood and "bad shit" that is resulting from the war and I enjoyed the parts of the movie, like the beginning, that were either fact/opinion or humorous and a LONG scene revolving around the grief of one mother didn't do it for me, nor is it an effective way to promote your message unless you are targeting it at very sensitive people.

[CptPlanet]

The whole bit about getting the children of congressmen to enlist was pretty good though.

[Epsilon]

Originally posted by Stabby
I didn't say I didn't feel bad for them mister, but that's what the scenes are there for, it's sappy and sentimental and meant to manipulate the viewer.
I felt it was meant to inform the viewer of what's actually happening, not to manipulate the viewer. Not to make any accusation toward you, but the vast majority of people I've talked to who are against the showing of pictures like that are the people who support this bullshit war and our criminal presidency. My guess is the supporters of the war are nervous that video of innocent Iraqi children with half of their face burned off by fuckin' napalm will cause other supporters to dissent.

You don't have to be "very sensitive" to feel that it's wrong to disfigure a child with such a horrendous weapon as napalm just because someone in his/her vicinity "might" be a legit target. Especially in a war that we never should have started in the first place against a country that never even attacked us, or even threatened to.

I have no idea what your view is on the war, but I would say to anyone that if you support it and you have a problem with seeing the true, real life result of it, then you need a checkup from the neck up.

[Rabot]

We should have gotten saddam during the gulf war, but "Bush is a Pussy"

[Stabby]

Originally posted by Epsilon
I felt it was meant to inform the viewer of what's actually happening, not to manipulate the viewer. Not to make any accusation toward you, but the vast majority of people I've talked to who are against the showing of pictures like that are the people who support this bullshit war and our criminal presidency. My guess is the supporters of the war are nervous that video of innocent Iraqi children with half of their face burned off by fuckin' napalm will cause other supporters to dissent.


Yeah, I agree with you. I actually just got back from seeing Amy Goodman tonight and one of the things she talked about was the U.S. media's refusal to show victims of the war. Instead they choose to display herioc images of soldiers against sunsets and bombs falling from planes but won't show you the results of those bombs.

Anyway, what I was trying to get at, and I sometimes have a hard time explaining in English, is simply that from my standpoint I was more interested in the stolen election, Saudi connections, case for war, the bleeding of 9-11 into iraq to make said case, etc. than I was with spending 30 minutes on a mother who's son had died. I felt that was pushing the sentimental button and I am more concrened with the facts and Moore's own opinions. He actually hardly showed much of dead Iraqi kids, the overly sentimental stuff was time spent with a grieving American mother. And in a critique of the film, this was when the movie lost some of it's "umph."

[agent_PUNT]

You make some good points Stabby, but Epsilon hits it right on.

Word.

On a lighter note, I think I just tasted my girlfriends period for the first time. It's kind of a funny story... I was staying at her parents house over night and I accidently grabbed her dad's lunch bag instead of mine.

He's gonna be laughing when he opens his bag and he gets my coke instead of his daughters shedding uterus walls.

hahaha..

[CptPlanet]

uh dude. wow.

[agent_PUNT]

no good?

[jjbuckaroo]

You know. Why the fuck don't they film these wars in graphic detail and show them 2 years down the road to us? Why the fuck do I have to go and watch some movie producer's edited bullshit about the war?

We have the right to know and I don't want to hear any idiotic crap about how it's a security risk. Show it to us later when it's over!

We, as the people of the united states, deserve better and deserve to know the truth.

I can't believe these bastards get away with this.

[jjbuckaroo]

Also, I eat popsicles made out of cat pee.

[CptPlanet]

Originally posted by jjbuckaroo
You know. Why the fuck don't they film these wars in graphic detail and show them 2 years down the road to us? Why the fuck do I have to go and watch some movie producer's edited bullshit about the war?

We have the right to know and I don't want to hear any idiotic crap about how it's a security risk. Show it to us later when it's over!

We, as the people of the united states, deserve better and deserve to know the truth.

I can't believe these bastards get away with this.

you lost me with this diatribe but i'm totally feelin' you about the cat pee thing. TRULY A SUMMER DELIGHT!

[apotatojudge]

Did you know that, apparently, cat pee glows under a black light?

Who knows.

[Rabot]

I know from experience, it works...It's the only sure way to find those embarashing stains on my mattress...I didn't know cats would piss like that when you try to fuck them.

[agent_PUNT]

I think I may have seen a guy rubbing a stray cat in his face this morning. Not sure. But it was fucking hilarious ( I'm on 4 hours sleep, not funny at all.)

[agent_PUNT]

Originally posted by jjbuckaroo
Also, I eat popsicles made out of cat pee.

So I take it your voting for Nader?